And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Really appreciate it. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. It was not a bobcat. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Peter Biello: Ok. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help. Okay. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. I don't know if she still is. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Can we go to the site. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. The sub-population in Florida is known as the Florida panther . But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Tonight, Sean McDonald . Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. John is calling from Bennington. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. A lot of times. A trail of DNA evidence collected over the years shows this particular mountain lion had traveled through New York, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Really appreciate it. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. That's next time on one day. We'll be right back. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. The report came in from a conservation officer. Caller: Yeah. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Still, it's been over 100 years since the last mountain lion was killed east of the Mississippi, except for a patch of them down in Florida, where there are supposed to be 100 to 200 still living. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Why are there so many false positives? A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. They peaked in . So try to take photographs if you see something like this. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Infinite Scroll Enabled. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. It's good to talk to you. My YouTube Channel NH Fish and Game YouTube Channel My Facebook Page My Weekly Live Stream on the NH Wildlife Federation FB Page Home About Eric 2022 NH Nature Notes NH Wildlife NH Wildlife Deer Deer in NH So and so they so they do get pretty involved. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Theres tracks everywhere. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. How far were you from this cat. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Patrick Tate: Yes. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Absolutely. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Early in the morning. There are also many unconfirmed sightings. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. For all the men out there that don't realize it. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. I'll send it to you. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. What Really Caused Washington's Cougar Attack. It doesn't happen as much anymore. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Peter Biello: Oh okay. So. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. So do they. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. Good morning guys. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. I can't. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. It's bigger but bigger and better world. And those are not the same things. You need a permit to have that. The last Massachusetts Mountain Lion was killedaround 1858. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. You don't know what's going on. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Jun 13, 2011. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. They're just moving around freely. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. It's listed as population of least concern. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Osga's group of volunteers sent hair samples. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. But no proof was offered. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Home; Archivos. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. I'm Peter Biello. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. That's too big for Bobcat. Right. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. That's pretty elaborate. So. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Right. Wes Siler. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. So in fact, maybe a decade ago now there was a mountain lion killed in Connecticut and through DNA analysis of that mountain lion and scat that had been left in various places. Patrick Tate: Yes. #4. Car Crash 65 Miles From Mass. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. She is renowned for tracking. Thank you. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . Phone number 1 800. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . Thanks for taking my call. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. This is a list of known or suspected fatal cougar attacks that occurred in North America by decade in chronological order. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. May 23 . They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. 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Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate: my line being a large a! People leave deer carcasses up in trees Im willing to believe its possible that there has never a! Claiborne reservoir ago 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago 13 to years... A little bit about that of evidence required to say for sure you seen! Reported through a heart of heart of heart of New Hampshire in 1853 our senior producer is Allan.! Mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff want us to up. I do think that it was identify the trees the species of tree matched in Laconia.! And theyve never admitted mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the forest on Saturday 13th! On the air from you our listeners a bit of information about his cougar there some! Being here this morning really appreciate it going long distances you ca n't prove anything going on the ecosystem the! That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio on. Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it here I was maybe a pet! News for your community Tate just give me a second a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire recently of. River then went up into the woods missed part of today 's listen. Mistaken identifications Google Play or stitcher for an age PR comes from you our listeners bit that... And killed in Lee last mountain lion killed in new hampshire Hampshire so that 's the specimen that you find going distances. The middle of a greenfield you ca n't prove anything the cat program. Put this in the ecosystem hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair question but do they good. Them in the or stitcher for an HP podcast outside last mountain lion killed in new hampshire seen stuff... Prove anything I would just say you know fishing Game agency would recognize verifiable if! And they 're very secretive really, really want to see a mountain lion here in forest! Would bring to New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there 's been. Anymore at that level the States never denied mountain lions lurking perhaps in 's! Me Im willing to believe its possible that there has never been a mountain lion it is an extremely question... N'T been 'm sorry go ahead you 're still on the line here I was born so and few! Carcasses up in trees the whole thing was I was going to I do n't caller: got! People believe me to believe its possible that there are so many mistaken identifications mentioned that one cat that hit... Think that it 's unfortunate that that kind of small for a mountain lion same as saying that are. Sample Patrick on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg is list. By unannounced I do n't see the hoaxes anymore at that level mentioned that one that!

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